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Empirical test of AKTS?
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Author Topic: Empirical test of AKTS?  (Read 4796 times)
John
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2012, 03:49:05 PM »

Let me take a moment to put an addendum to what I said.

My purpose in the last reply was to draw parallel's between arts that you've mentioned, and AKS. Please understand that what I said was true, but it really...waters down a lot of what AKS can offer. A sapu is far more than a Muay Thai kick with an added technique at the end. The target and intentions are different. But I'm trying to find uniform ground with which we can discuss these things. Further, the musculature, while HIGHLY similar, is subtly different as well, which are in line with its intentions as a blade aware art. My attempt to oversimplyify some things to put forth a mainstream explanation, using commonly understood vernacular, may have been too dismissive of the minitua for those who actually practice the art.

AKS has its own flavor, but in order to share the recipe, I"ve stripped out the less common ingrediants to make a "mainstream" version, so people understand it better. My bad.It is far more than the sum of its parts.

Now please note, I do not say this lightly. I started in martial arts back in '93. I have had some amazing teachers. But my focus has always been, what arts will allow me to work against an opponent in a streetfight, who is bigger, stronger, and has some skills as well? What will allow me to escape safely? Which arts yield the biggest return for time invested? The answer always comes back to the arts of South East Asia and internal mechanics (fajing, listening energy, etc). AKS provides a very and useful presentation of this, and alot more as well.

Anyway, sorry for the additional post, but I felt some clarification was necessary as my previous was done in haste.

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck. But again, I'd like to stress that the price of the DLP is hard to beat.

John



« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 06:47:05 PM by John » Logged
GuruAric
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2012, 03:55:19 PM »

Many KTS and AKTS practitioners have TRIED to 'ring' sports with Kuntao or Silat.  In every single case I've heard about, the practitioner was disqualified due to excessive contact. Experienced practitioners can't help it.  This all comes through naturally and is very difficult to NOT hurt the opponent.

 Grin

my .02 cents.
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Roland
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2012, 05:42:16 PM »

Hi folks,

sorry for the delay, I've been very busy the last weeks. So I think this thread has some valuable input and at the end it is just by actually practicing an art  that we can really understand it. So I think I will leave it at that and keep an open mind towards AKTS and try to learn and incorporate it whenever possible.

Thanks to all!
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John
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2012, 04:43:07 PM »

Absolutely Roland. Great to see you join. I applaud your investigative mindset in reviewing combat sports as an idea of studying validity in the heat of combat. That's a very important factor in finding out what works. Hate to beat a dead horse, but... <--which means I'm gonna beat a dead horse...
 whereas MMA works as a great filter in isolating and discarding unrealistic techniques, it also has to do the same with deadly/"non-sportive" techniques. "Small joint manipulation" (finger breaks) would eliminate a lot of holds. So would high percentage moves that would severely injure a person (temple strikes, throat strikes, etc). If you walk into a fight and think "jab and punch, jab and punch", that's what you're going to do. Likewise if you walk into a fight thinking "Eye gouge, throat tear, nut shots"...well...that's a very different mindset that doesn't work in a sportsman arena. The key to weaponizing those capabilities is exemplified in the Maha Guru Gartin videos on Partner Practice. This is a very key step that's missing in a lot of systems. They don't escalate the difficulty between training partners... it goes directly from "he punches and freezes while I retailiate with my laundry list of techniques" directly to sparring. Maha Guru Gartin provides an integral middle-ground that affords the ability to practice "serious" techniques without the negative consequences, and where everyone can still shake hands and be friends. Being able to deploy ALL your weapons during practice allows you to keep them fresh in your mind when the adrenal dump kicks in. Eliminating them means they are no longer your "go-to" mechanisms when the *@#*&@# hits the fan.

John
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 06:38:41 PM by John » Logged
Steven Vance
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2013, 05:04:17 AM »

Hmmm...I know this post stopped a long time ago, but I think I'll throw in my two cents' worth.  Better late then never, maybe...

The MMA guys love to tout their record.  Let's think about it for a minute, though.  Why do they win over a lot of the "non-MMA" guys in the ring?  Intensity of training, imho, is the biggest factor.  Its their job.  They train for hours every day, just like boxers.  How many of us do that?  Also, the rules favor them.  The list of forbidden techniques highlights most of my favorite techniques as a practitioner of kuntao silat, silat and muay Thai (the way I was taught it). 

Let's not forget several things, though.  MMA is a sport.  The objective is not to walk away the "victor" in a life-and-death confrontation.  It is to win a match and the attendant money.  The "confrontation" is entirely predictable.  Two people fighting in a ring, of similar weight, face-to-face, no weapons, buddies, or other surprises.  No ambush.  No "dirty" shots.  Etc., ad nauseaum.  The thing I find especially nasty about MMA is the generally low behavioral standards I see - the name calling, trash talking, and all the rest of it.  Is that something I wish to associate with?  NO.  I admire and respect the hard work the fighters put in.  I would definitely not want to get in a fight with Anderson Silva or Oleg Taktarov, to name a couple of people.  I do not, however, like what comes with MMA, or their propaganda claiming they are the 'end all-be all' in the martial arts world.  They are going to get some young people killed, sooner or later.

Kuntao Silat, on the other hand, is a way of life and a combative system.  The priorities are very different.  Should some people in the silat and kuntao silat world decide they wish to be involved in the MMA circuit, and devote their efforts to it, I have no doubt they could enjoy great success.  It is all about dedication and intensity, and really learning "right technique - right place - right time". 

The MMA folks said the high front kick couldn't be done in the ring.  Steven Seagal, and a couple of skilled fighters he coached, proved them wrong - not just once, but twice.  Tons of MMA folks talk trash about Seagal...but, its funny, I don't see them doing it to his face, or challenging him to a fight. 

I have found things in Silat and Kuntao Silat that make it very clear to me that some people, many years ago, knew exactly what they were doing when they created these arts - for combat and self-protection.  Not sport.  Whether I learn the techniques well enough to use the gifts they have offered me is up to me, and me alone.  I believe the same can be said of many other arts, if people wish to dedicate themselves to their training at a deep enough level.
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Tim Nichols
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2014, 03:11:20 PM »

The MMA folks said the high front kick couldn't be done in the ring.  Steven Seagal, and a couple of skilled fighters he coached, proved them wrong - not just once, but twice.

They proved it wrong themselves. Look at any UFC knockout reel...now.

This is one of those places where sheer number of years on the planet helps. I watched UFC 1 when it happened. And UFC2, and 3, and.... I remember all the grand pronouncements about how fancy things like high kicks and pressure points and spin moves and weird self-defense 'tricks' like eye gouging were a thing of the past, and it was all going to be GJJ and boxing from here on out, 'cuz that was "what worked."

Some years go by, and damned if we haven't seen guys taken out of the fight because of a thumb to the eye, liver shots, spinning backfists, reverse elbows, more high kicks than I can count...I even saw a clip of somebody run off the chainlink side of the octagon and kick to the head for a knockout. And then there's that MMA fighter that got himself shanked in San Francisco a few years back, ring experience and all. (Always a lot of squealing when I bring that up, and assertions of how I wouldn't have done any better. Debatable, but my point is, I'm the guy with the knife.)

Of course, every year there's a fresh crop of strong young bucks with speedos and shaved heads wanting to tell us this year's version of "what works," blissfully unaware of those that preceded them. Often wrong but never uncertain, these kids.

It's all very cute, but they're not old enough to know what works.
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